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ksh dumping core (dep off)
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 ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 12, '05, 10:39:48 AM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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I have a new Win2k3 SP1 box with 2 GB RAM and KSH keeps dumping core on me. Or worse, hanging at 99% CPU utilization!
[breiter@prometheus]# uname -X
System = Interix
Node = prometheus
Release = 3.5
Version = SP-8.0.1969.1
Machine = x86
Processor = Intel_x86_Family6_Model13_Stepping8
HostSystem = Windows
HostRelease = SP1
HostVersion = 5.2
I have DEP turned off in Boot.ini:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows Server 2003, Standard" /fastdetect /sos /NoExecute=AlwaysOff
The issue seems to be particularly in conjunction with sed in scripts. I have a temporary workaround (which I don't really like) by changing the /bin/sh -> /bin/ksh symlink to /bin/sh -> /usr/local/bin/bash.
Now my build scripts work. But I would like KSH to work properly.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 12, '05, 2:14:36 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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This is seeming to relate with reports from several other people.
The problem seems to be on Windows 2003 machines with SP1.
I'll note that the current version of PSXSS.EXE is 8.0.1969.2
(you'll see this if you run fileinfo, but not uname).
I've asked Microsoft PSS/support if this is a known issue and if there is a patch.
I just (seconds ago) heard back from one person who had contacted PSS a couple of
days ago about this issue (after trying the DEP thing without success) that a fix
is in the works and will be available RSN. I'll let you know what I hear back from
PSS directly.
The other workaround is to backout SP1 if possible (as reported in another post
http://www.interopsystems.com/tools/forum/tm.aspx?m=5739&mpage=1&key=ᚈ
by member eppNator.)
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 12, '05, 2:50:35 PM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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I appear to have the latest PSXSS.EXE.
[breiter@prometheus]# fileinfo
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXSS.EXE 8.0.1969.2
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXDLL.DLL 8.0.1969.1
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/POSIX.EXE 8.0.1969.1
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXRUN.EXE 8.0.1969.1
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/drivers/PSXDRV.SYS 8.0.1969.1
<rant>
On a related note, it is dissapointing that MS didn't see this coming. They handled the interaction between SFU 3.5 and Win2k3 SP1 poorly. The DEP issue is significant. I thought that there was a way to programmatically opt out of DEP. Why didn't Microsoft use that to exclude code running under PSXSS.EXE from DEP so that DEP doesn't have to be turned off on the whole box. It's particularly suprising in the context that Interix is becoming an optional subsystem (subsystem for UNIX applications: SUA) on the Windows Server 2003 R2 disk!
</rant>
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 12, '05, 3:28:57 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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There is a way to programatically opt out of DEP at compile time with the MSVC compiler.
But there is not for gcc (yes, I know this could start a different <rant>  ).
Most of the SFU utilities (as shipped with SFU) do get built with MSVC.
But many of the applications in /Tools must get built with gcc (or g++) though.
Microsoft is rarely in this timeframe (where most of us exist). They are 1, 2 or 3 years into
the future. Part of that future is SUA/Interix being in R2. To be in R2 meant that SUA then
beomes part of the Windows group. This is a new little fish getting in the big pond and, for
lack of a better term, going through a big complex initiation for integrating. Then throw in
several MS lawyers for "good" measure. This has really bogged down the SFU development group.
So I offer that as some defence on their part, though of course I cannot speak for MS.
To address the question about DEP built utilities. DEP will only affect utilities that try
to do some execution on their stack. So only some need the programatic flag set for DEP off.
That stated, it's sounding like the shell SEGV thing has nothing to do with DEP based on
what I have heard is now getting fixed. However, for all of the utilities shipping with SFU
(except gcc et al) there is to be some exciting announcement RSN I'm told.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 12, '05, 6:29:14 PM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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I gave this feedback directly to Microsoft when I last got one of those satified customer survey call backs. But in case repetition helps I'm going to vent here one more time.
<rant>
There are two versions of SFU 3.5, you can't easily tell by looking at them and only the new version works on Win2k3 SP1. The fact that there was a silently upgraded download from microsoft.com/windows/sfu versions of SFU 3.5 that are subtly different from the original and the current version available from MSDN and not labeled as such is a disaster. The MSDN version should have been updated, the new download should be called SFU 3.5a and the patch to upgrade from SFU 3.5 to 3.5a should be a public and prominent download. No call-ins required.
Seriously, this was a big mistake because it means if you have the older build of SFU 3.5 and you upgrade Windows to SP1, your PSXSS.EXE subsystem suddenly starts crashing. And after you manage to figure out what the problem is, you can't download the patch. You have to talk to a human at MS Support and get *SCHEDULED* for a callback at which point you will explain why you need Q183133. They will then email you a URL with a magic password to unlock the file.
There are 3 significant problems that I have experienced with Interix from SFU 3.5 on Win2k3 SP1:
1. PSXSS.EXE 8.0.1969.1 crashes on Win2k SP1 apparently because of a (unnamed) kernel API change that is different in an important way from XP SP2 and Win2k3 Gold. It's OK to have the issue, but it should have been *MUCH* easier to diagnose and correct, without having to contact a support engineer at Microsoft. A note on the microsoft.com/windows/sfu site and a note in the Win2k3 release notes along with a prominent and publically downloadable patch would have been appropriate, in my opinion.
2. DEP ebabled in any form causes apps built with GCC (which is bundled with SFU 3.5) to core dump. I can accept this, but there should have been a prominent note on Microsoft's site. Or they should have updated GCC to work with DEP and told us to recompile our code. I would have accepted the necessity to recompile for the sake of a more secure system. If GCC could not be updated in the SP1 timeline (which was clearly the case) they should have put a prominent warning onto the SFU website that GCC is incompatible with DEP.
3. KSH crashes or goes to high CPU utilization running various scripts. (Although the specific lines in the scripts that cause the crashes can be executed interactively with KSH). Seriously, WTF?
Those are 3 significant issues for a product that is intended for use in the datacenter. One of the things I liked was that it was more stable and reliable (IMHO) than Cygwin in addition to being more architecturally clean and elegant. These three problems have eroded my confidence in the product somewhat.
It makes me sad because I really like Interix and have come to depend on it. Consider that a new user of SFU 3.5 will most likely give up quickly after trying it on a Win2k SP1 machine. There is a learning curve and the best support site is here, but it is now members only. I know that $20 is a pittance for membership here, but I wonder how many people are stopped in there tracks during a product evaluation because Microsoft provides no free equivalent to Rodney's excellent FAQ. I am certain that people hesitate to haul out a credit card and pay even a pittance for support of a product that they aren't even sure they will use.
Interix really is a great product and so I'm hoping that these glitches will get ironed out quickly. Microsoft will put in a better customer communication strategy for SFU that goes well beyond promotional white papers. Patches will become publically available. And for @#$*%'s sake increase their support of this site.
</rant>
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 26, '05, 2:43:54 AM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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Is there a patch available for this KSH core dumping thing, yet? Because if not, I have to go in and change all of the scripts in /usr/contrib/win32/bin to use /bin/sh instead of /bin/ksh.
Using bash for /bin/sh keeps shell scripts from crashing but the scripts that come in /usr/contrib/win32/bin don't use /bin/sh they explicitly use /bin/ksh.
I use copy a lot because it allows me to copy a file into a folder using admin credentials and the new file that is created will inherit NTFS permissions of the folder instead of getting UMASK permissions. But I get this happy little event, now:
# copy step4.aspx "X:\SOMEPATH\"
1 file(s) copied.
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
My su admin subshell is crashed and I'm back at my limited rights login. Ugh!
< Message edited by breiter -- May 26, '05, 2:51:07 AM >
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 26, '05, 11:22:40 AM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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There's nothing "officially released".
That said, I know of at least two people who have been using some fix.
Even when the fix is officially available you'll have to get it through
MS support. So getting in queue for it seems to be the thing.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 28, '05, 12:34:01 AM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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I promptly recieved a callback from the SFU/Interix team tech support guy. (It always seems to be the same guy.) He sent me a build of psxdll.dll that is a "pre-hotfix". I guess it hasn't been fully regression tested yet. It solves the ksh crashing on my XEON servers and my Pentium M laptops running Win2k3 SP1.
[breiter@prometheus]# fileinfo
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXSS.EXE 8.0.1969.2
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXDLL.DLL 8.0.1969.30
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/POSIX.EXE 8.0.1969.1
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXRUN.EXE 8.0.1969.1
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/drivers/PSXDRV.SYS 8.0.1969.1
PSXDLL.DLL version 8.0.1969.30. Ask for it if your ksh is crashing.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - May 29, '05, 4:16:14 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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> (It always seems to be the same guy.)
Just FYI: there are about 5 or 6 MS support people for SFU.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 11, '05, 1:58:08 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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Latest news from MS-PSS last night (Friday) is that the HotFix is now officially released.
It's HotFix Q899028 for Windows 2003-SP1.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 11, '05, 2:19:28 PM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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This is odd. The "final" hotfix I got this week from Microsoft has a different version number than Rodney just posted. I have been running Q899522 for a few days now and have had good luck with this hotfix so far. It pretty much replaces the whole POSIX subsystem with a new version.
[breiter@prometheus]# fileinfo
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXSS.EXE 8.0.1969.32
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXDLL.DLL 8.0.1969.32
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/POSIX.EXE 8.0.1969.32
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/PSXRUN.EXE 8.0.1969.32
/dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/system32/drivers/PSXDRV.SYS 8.0.1969.1
Below is a description of what was changed.
======================================================================
1. PREREQUISITES FOR INSTALLING THIS UPDATE
======================================================================
To install and use this update, you must be running Windows Services
for UNIX 3.5.
======================================================================
2. PROBLEM FIXED BY THIS UPDATE
======================================================================
1. Users may experience random failures during signal handling and stack
unwinding operations, typically while running scripts in a ksh.
2. Semaphores that have been set by SEM_UNDO are not completely deleted.
While the semaphore's state appears as deleted, the delete operation
fails. One consequence of the failure is that the fork() process fails
with ENOMEM.
======================================================================
3. THE FIX
======================================================================
1. Installing this Update updates the exception list and serializes access
to processes.
2. The solution uses a different utility to delete the semaphores and
verify that references to the semaphore are eliminated, especially
during the fork process in the POSIX subsystem.
< Message edited by breiter -- Jun. 11, '05, 2:21:27 PM >
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 11, '05, 2:47:22 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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Interesting.
I'll ask what the difference is between Q899522 and Q899028.
Given that all of the version numbers changed I'm wondering
if the CD download is about to be "quietly" updated again...
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 11, '05, 8:51:38 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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I just got e-mail back (on a Saturday!) that the correct number is Q899522.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 21, '05, 12:58:41 AM
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savoiu
Posts: 25
Joined: Jun. 11, '05,
Status: offline
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How can one get this hotfix? I searched the MS website without luck.
Thanks,
Nick
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 21, '05, 2:43:19 AM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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You need to actually contact Microsoft support either by e-mail or telephone.
Once contact is made they will provide a web address for you to download from.
In 99.999% of the cases you won't get charged support time for this because it's
a fix for a known Microsoft problem. But you may/will still have to give some
credit card info. MS does this to keep track of who has the patches.
If I remember the problems you have experienced you can summarize to PSS that
you are running W2K3 with SP1, have all of the DEP settings (software & hardware
off) and are experiencing SEGV's with applications. You request 899522 as the fix.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 21, '05, 7:44:13 PM
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demyn
Posts: 34
Joined: Jun. 20, '05,
Status: offline
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Hey ... thanks for all the good data on this problem. I've been using Intrix for exactly two excruciating days, and was half-way through a report on how unstable it is. I installed the patch -- much better. Now delete the first three paragraphs from my report :)
Thanks,
Demyn
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 21, '05, 8:14:15 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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Glad we're helpful :-)
If you have other questions for your report please ask away.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 23, '05, 7:07:12 PM
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ehall
Posts: 31
Joined: May 29, '05,
Status: offline
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I got the hotfix today and it fixed most of my configure/make problems
They're refunding the $99 too btw
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 23, '05, 9:11:45 PM
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breiter
Posts: 346
Joined: Jun. 14, '04,
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
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I'm glad you got the patch. I'm sorry that it is so difficult to get.
I have given my opion directly to the support engineers and the feedback survey people that have called me:
These patches should be publically available downloads. They should really be linked right on the SFU product page like patches are linked to the SQL Server, Sharepoint, Exchange and pretty much every other product's page.
They should not require seting up an SRX, which for many people involves giving MS a credit card number and risking $100.
I don't understand what the strategy is here.
It must hurting the perception product. How many people install SFU 3.5 on Windows Server 2003 SP1, see that it crashes all the time and think "what a buggy piece of crap"? Of these, how many are motivated enough to figure out that there is a hotfix that you have to call in for? It might just be easier to uninstall SFU and grab Cygwin, UnWIN, MKS or even MinGW.
Please Microsoft, if you are listening, we like Interix. Please make the patches easy to get.
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RE: ksh dumping core (dep off) - Jun. 23, '05, 11:51:36 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 3729
Joined: Jul. 9, '02,
From: /Tools lab
Status: online
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Some positive news in this area. I asked PSS if the SFU 3.5 download
could be updated to already have the hotfix 899522 and I gave reasons
that all of you are well aware of. I'm glad to hear that others have been
doing this as well. The more voices the better; no one hears the silent.
I've heard that PSS has asked for this to happen (yaaa, PSS).
If/when it will I don't know though.
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